"When we were asked to participate in an interview which would be played in front of 300 school pupils from 13 schools across Derry we were nervous and excited," says Headliners Grace McGowan
As part of Derry City Council's 'Prejudice - Face-On' conference Headliners young people were asked to interview two men who had been involved in the Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) and the Ulster defence Regiment (UDR) during The Troubles.
This interview with Don Brown and Nigel Gardiner was played at the conference to pupils from 13 schools who also gave group presentations on homophobia, racial discrimination and sectarianism.
Grace reflects: “When I was told it would be with two ex-combatants I was very wary and wanted to know if the two men knew each other.
“As it turns out they did know each other and were friends. I felt really comfortable when I met them and knew the interview would go well.
“We asked Don and Nigel questions about their past and their role in the Troubles. The feedback we received was both extraordinary and emotional.
“Don was a member of the INLA and consequently spent quite a few years in jail. He explained how he regretted this because of all the things he missed while he was away. Things such as his childrens’ first communions. Nigel was a member of the UDR and told us about his experiences and his part in the Troubles.
“When asked what they thought the role of young people would be in the future of Northern Ireland they both agreed that young people had a massive part to play in shaping our future society. We asked them what advice they would give to young people in our society today and their answers were inspirational. They told us they believed a good, solid education was the key and that alcohol, drugs and gangs should be avoided at all costs. Sound advice!
“I learned a lot from the interview and I feel I have a more in-depth understanding of the history of my city. I also feel that I am a step closer to understanding why people did everything they did. I thoroughly enjoyed it and it reinforced my new-found interest in local history.
At the end of the interview there was complete silence in the room.”
Saorla 16 describes her experience: “Recently, I was fortunate enough to be given the opportunity to interview two men from very different backgrounds. It was an interesting experience as I had never done anything like it before, and I have never been very involved in political matters.
“I didn’t have a particularly good knowledge of the subject, but this interview gave me an insight to the topics that really matter in our society today, and made me think about future involvement in such matters.
“As soon as I began to talk to them, countless questions sprung to mind, and I realised I had a keen interest in the subject. From this interview, I witnessed immense maturity and respect between our interviewees. They had come to understand that, although they may not have supported each other’s previous lifestyles , they maintained a level of respect for each other’s beliefs, and in doing so, they could put the past behind them and move on.
"These two men were inspiring, and from the interview, I took away the challenge of, “What can my generation do for the future to improve our society?”
Saorla explains: “I have become more aware of the world around me, and the controversy that needs to be overcome.”
Please listen to or read the interview with Don and Nigel.
S:Hello, could you tell us you names please?
D:My name is Don Brown.
N:My name is Nigel Gardiner.
S:Could you please tell us where you are from?
D:I’m from Derry, a place called Woodbrook.
N:I’m from the Waterside area of Londonderry-Derry. I live on Irish street.
S:Can you tell me a little bit about the person you used to be and the person you are now?
D:Okay, well, before going to prison, I was a father of three and married, living in the Glen Estate in Derry. I was unemployed at the time, but now, I am a full time yoga teacher working in peace and reconciliation.
N:Coming from a working class background I started my early working career in a shirt factory called Hog and Mitchell’s and became involved community work in 2003.
G:What was your involvement in the troubles?
D:Well I was a member of a group called the INLA which is the Irish National Liberation Army. It was basically a break away from the IRA and I was involved in it over a period of years.
N:I saw Northern Ireland going down the road to anarchy and civil war. I could easily have got pushed into joining paramilitary groups. I decided not to and I joined the UDR in 1971.
S:Why do you think you got involved? What were your reasons? D:Well one of the main reasons was that I was actually there on Bloody Sunday, with my mother and my two sisters and I saw some people getting killed in the Bogside. That put some thoughts in my head. The environment in the area I was living in made me run into members of the UDR and the army and that sort of kicked things off.
N:Sectarianism was rife in the early 1970s. I noticed people were being slaughtered just because of their religion and I thought I would join the security forces.
S:Do you have any regrets about your past?
D :Oh I have tonnes of regrets. I regret that a friend of Nigel's died because of what I believed in. Mostly I regret the personal things like missing my kids and not getting to see them going to school or see them making their First Holy Communions and things like that. Eventually my marriage broke-up too.
N:I don’t have any regrets. If there is any regret, it is really one from a political aspect. The government at the time and politicians in general could have done more to help bring groups together around a table and discuss peace.
G:What would you say to a young person tempted to go down a similar route as yours today?
N:Well when we look at the anti-social behavior that we have in our own society; alcohol abuse, drug abuse, gambling addictions, I would ask do the young people want an alternative to hanging around street corners drinking and becoming involved in criminality? As a former member of the security forces I would say join the Army, the Air Force or the Navy, see the world, and get a trade!
D:Well I would just say something similar to Nigel but really I would ask young people to consider what they’re doing. Go and see some different parts of the world before you make the decision of surrendering your life to something.
S:What do you think the role of young people is in the future of Northern Ireland?
D:Well, you are the young people who are going to rule this country at some stage and make the decisions for it. I hope that you make better decisions than I did at 17 and 18 and I wish you well in any journey that you are going to take. Really think about what you are doing.
N:I have to echo Don’s words. You are the future of tomorrow and the future of society and the like of our generation would probably look up to you for guidance as your generation is today looking to us for guidance.
G:What advice would you give to young people growing up in Derry and the Northwest?
N:There are a couple of aspects to that. One is get a good, sound firm education. Avoid becoming involved in the gangs and stay clear of drugs, alcohol, gambling, Ask yourself: Where do I want to go in life? What do I want to from life? As an individual, it is your own decision really what way you want to go.
D:I would just add to that asking any young person to really challenge drug abuse and alcohol abuse and to challenge peer pressure Think for yourself.
G:Do you think that young people understand what you are saying about the firm education and staying away from drugs and things? N:The majority of young people do understand. It’s the other percentage that we as community representatives, find it very hard to engage with because they don’t see any avenue out of the rut that they are in. They are stigmatised within their own communities. These are the people we have to reach out to. It is quite easy for Don and myself and other people to walk away, but the question is, who are we letting down if we decide to walk away?
D:I would try and improve the living environment so young people wouldn’t be deprived of food or education, especially at this time of recession. Drink and drugs don’t solve any problems.
About this article
This article was written by Grace McGowan (14) and Saorla Boyle (16)
